A reader(iconoclast) answer to FYROM President claims
The Spiegel Online article is frought with misinformation and out right lies. Unfortunately, it seems that the reporter Renate Flottau does is not well versed with the subject that she is attempting to tackle, leading to Ivanov making false statements that she allows him to get away with without challenging him in anyway.
Ivanov is a blatent lier.
"Does anybody really believe that we would attack Greece and demand a union with "Macedonians" who have been living in Greece since 1913"Greece has not stated that they see the instability manifest itself in the absurd notion that Ivanov is putting forward, but rather the propaganda that eminates from Skopje is creating instability, right now. This is not some sort of dream we are living. There are no "Macedonian" people living in Greece since 1913, these people are bi-lingual citizens of Greece. They chose to remain in Greece during population exchange that occured after the 1912-13 Balkan War, and thus asserting their choice to be Greek citizens. What Ivanov is asserting is his twisted propaganda, once again.
"These maps of the ethnic "Macedonians" from the 19th century, when all "Macedonians" lived together in one state."What a load of absolute garbage. These people that Ivanov refers to "Macedonians" were Slavs who lived in the region of Macedonia that was a part of the Ottoman Empire, there was no such state of "Macedonia" that he is attempting to manufacture. Such a state, in the sense of a nation did not exist, but only in his delusional mind and in the delusional mind of the Slavs of the newly created nation state of the FYROM. In the geographical region of Macedonia, there was a "La Salade Macedeoineis" of ethnicities, Turks, Albainians, Bulgars, Serbs, Roma and Greeks. These Slavs of the FYROM had at that time an ethnic conscience of being Bulgar. So this rubbish Ivanov is espousing is just that rubbish.
"Many "Macedonians" who were forced to flee Greece, had to leave behind everything they had"Yes, Mr. Ivanov but these individuals also were considered traitors of the Greek state. They were not forced to flee, they fled due to their prior traitorous actions against the Greek state that led them to flee on their own volition. If they had stayed they would have been charged as enemy combatants and traitors, and at that time, would have been put up against a firing squad and shot. So they fled to save their own skin!
"They were brought by the emigrants. As opponents of the communists, they were expelled and they returned after the communist regime fell."These people fled on their own violition because they chose to fight with the communists and against the Greek state, not the rubbish that Ivanov tries to put forward, that they were "opponents of the communists." What a joke this guy is! These people, who were Greek citizens were traitors to the Greek state.
"Our constitution, because of pressure from Greece, prohibits us from doing that. But as a member of the EU, Greece must accept that European principles must be adhered to across Europe -- also when it comes to its minorities."Which minorities is he refering to? He is attempting to create something that does not exist. There are bi-lingual Greek citizens that live in Greece, no one is denying this. Rather, Ivanov is with his acolytes attempting, to create a dynamic which results in social instability. This is what his failed propaganda is attempting to do. These people are simply delusional.
"It wasn't Macedonia, but rather Greece that evoked antiquity in order to prove its authenticity."No, Mr. Ivanov it has been your nations state sponsored propaganda that has been attempting to establish a direct link to the Greek speaking Ancient Macedonians, who by themselves, considered themselves Greek. Your state sponsored psuedo-history is attempting to assert that the Ancient Macedonians were your ancestors. The Greek people are fully in their right to protest and protect and cherrish their history. One need only open their eyes to your actions, rather than to your words to see the reality. You Mr. Ivanov are a propagandist and a delusional lier.
"We fulfilled every reform, our people planned for the future, foreign investments were announced. Worst of all is the fact that up to today not a single NATO official has found it necessary to discuss it with us or to offer the prospect of a solution. My God, we have been treated unfairly."No Mr. Ivanov, you have been treated fairly. You have not fulfilled every reform. The NATO was fully within its right to deny your nation an invitation to join the NATO. You were denied admittance for very legitimate reasons put forward by one of its members, Greece, in which the NATO thoughtfully considered, and agreed with Greece's position.
Maybe Mr. Ivanov, rather than acting like an immature child that spits its dummy when it doesn't get what it wants, which exactly what you have recently demonstrated by erecting all manner of ancient Greek statues, renaming your streets, buldings and anything else you could think of to names of ancient Greeks, you might want to be somewhat introspective, grow up, act mature, and take actions that demonstrates that you deserve to enter the NATO. Right now, the NATO itself doesn't think you are ready. It's really quite simple Mr. Ivanov, really, truly.
"If a train is standing on the tracks, the tracks will determine the direction. "Yes, Mr. Ivanov your analogy is poignant, the one significant point in your analogy you seem to have taken for granted, is that the train is stopping at your station. This is not a given, which you do not appear to have understood. Mr. Ivanov, you can catch a cold standing at a train platform for too long, waiting for a train that never stops.
"The new general secretary of NATO will also be more creative -- NATO could even review its own decision again and could accept us as part of the alliance despite Greece's veto."I don't think so Mr. Ivanov. This is what the current general secretary of the NATO said:
" QUESTION: Skopje New Information Agency. Secretary General, I must ask you, Skopje, as you know, has done a lot with the reforms to join NATO. We have our peace troops in Afghanistan and for the next year weâ€™re going to enlarge the Skopjan soldiers. Donâ€™t you think that in your mandate, you didnâ€™t give us enough support to become a member of NATO, together with Albania and Croatia?
JAAP DE HOOP SCHEFFER: No, I donâ€™t think so because I think Iâ€™ve done everything which was in my power to bring that about and Iâ€™m telling you no news if I say that the decision at the Bucharest Summit a year ago was crystal clear, that the solution has to be found for the name issue. And I hope that there will be some more flexibility in Skopje than Iâ€™ve seen up until now.
Let me answer you openly, frankly and directly. I would like to see your nation in NATO. Iâ€™ve never made any, Iâ€™ve never concealed my own ambition and Iâ€™ve been to Skopje many times. But it also means quite honestly that I have to see flexibility and I think more than I have seen up until now. So the answer to your question is no, I do not agree if you say, Secretary General, have you done enough? I think I have done enough. My successor will also invest. I have invested in the relationship with Skopje. So will my successor.
So that is my answer to your question."
Mr Ivaonv says:
"I am an optimist. US President Barack Obama just clearly stated that Macedonia must become a member of NATO."Yes, Mr. Ivanov the POTUS Obama may have said this, but you must understand that this is not without you taking the required steps, unless you want to see your good selves once again leaving empty handed.
"It takes two to tango."It seems Mr. Ivanov you have been reading my previous post, where I said "It takes two to tango, Greece is on the dance floor, but her partner has stood her up!"
In this link you can read FYROM President Gjorgje Ivanov interview